Some photo's from 2005

hehe... once again just because I can here are some photo's.

This first one is from Katherine's 21st. She decided to have a medieval party....




And of course lets not forget one of my favourite pastimes... eating left over "Brian's Special" Ginno's pizza the next morning.... That's right I was in Grahamstown for a few days while on leave.



and lets not forget this classic picture of me falling asleep while watching a movie... click on the pic to make it bigger... I'm surprised I wasn't snoring... or that I didn't choke for that matter.

To get the mind thinking... or just entertained

Out of interest do a search in google for "fossils of giants" or "giant human skeletons"... do enough searches and you will see that there seems to be 2 species of giants... just as in the bible. One which is human like and one which seems to have a double row teeth (like sharks)
Disclaimer... I know some sights you find by doing that search will try convince you to join some "the aliens are coming cult" and go run round naked covered in berry juice while the leader of the cult (who is actually the angel Gabriel) gets to have sex with all the woman so that a new messiah can be born"

It is my understanding that Jewish mythology would seem to indicate that Nimrod (from the bible) was one of these and is the person responsible for the tower of Babel and the worship of zodiac signs. Perhaps its all conspiracy... then again maybe so is evolution.

Or do a search on the problems with evolutions famous "piltdown" man.

Makes for interesting reading. hehe.

Some clarity

I think I need to clarify some things quickly. (I hope its quickly)

This is in reference to Peters comments (who btw is an awesome bass guitarist) but is once again done as a main post because it might be useful for others to read.
Comments 1
Comments 2
Comments 3

When I refer to evolution I refer to
a)Darwin's hypothesis.
b)Its presuppositions.
c)The consequences of those beliefs when hold on to in a closed system.
d)All the ideas and thoughts that have since been attached to evolution.

In other words I realize that originally Darwin's hypothesis did not include items c) and d). Fallen humanity has added those in and perhaps taken it a lot further than Darwin ever imagined. I am then therefore concerned about the "fruit" of evolution.

Also when I refer to evolution, I am referring to macro evolution, not micro evolution or natural selection. Natural selection is observable and does not conflict with genesis in any way.

In my view though natural selection is another sign that evolutions mutations into different species over billions of years is non sensical since we can observe some extreme (very extreme ) changes that happen in some species in 1 generation. An example is taking wild pigs into captivity... in 1 generation (and I saw this on a secular documentary) their tusk virtually disappear and they practically stop growing hair and become tame. These kind of changes are supposedly supposed to take at least a couple of generations.

If Darwins hypothesis were left at a)... then it would still be interesting scienctific debate. Unfortunately the ramifications of the idea have resulted in a religion of evolution which has resulted in the death of millions of people... just as the consequences Marx's ideas resulted in more deaths than any disease/war in the history of man.

What does it do to a little kids self esteem to be told you're an ape? At first nothing. I would go as far as to say that we are in a generation were we can't even answer that question because every kid is being told they are animals. They may laugh and think its funny etc. But what happens during purberty... when someone is looking for a sense of identity... when someone is wanting to know the answer to the question "What is my purpose?".

If evolution is at the core of your thinking (sub-consciously anyway), then somewhere influencing your thinking whether you like it or not is the following:
I am random.
I am nothing more than a chance combination of genes.
I must survive.
There is something wrong with me because.....

• Johnny runs faster
• Jim gets all the girls
• Tom gets higher marks
• Susie has nicer parents
• I have more pimples than xyz

Now I realize that no one person is ever limited to only thinking these kind of negative thoughts. And I realize those kind of negative thoughts can exist from other sources (like disapproving parents, abusive relationships etc) but evolution (and the philosophy that has "evolved" out of it will cause that kind of feeling).

I have really met people that believe those things. And even worse things... I have done surveys on WITS campus in fact with people and heard things like
"We have no purpose"
"I exist to have fun"
"Well Gareth, essentially we are controlled by instincts to propagate our own species... so my primary desire/purpose is to have as much sex as possible before I die." (and this guy was actually been very serious).

We (there were a couple of us doing the surveys) even encountered one of the professors who completely blew up and starting shouting when asked if he believes in creation?

These are obviously extreme examples. But they are slowly becoming the norm amongst secularist. These responses were quite common in fact... they were more than 10%. I would say 15-20% of the people I spoke to were in this category. Imagine... 10-20 years from now if 15-20% of the people in high leadership positions in our country (South Africa) believe they are nothing more than intelligent animals with no real purpose except to propagate their species.

This will have a major effect on the sanctity of human life. On corruption. On government funding. On racism. The Zim crisis is partly effected by this. There education system has been UK based. The UK has been teaching evolution far longer than we have (in a more stable environment than Zim)... I studied with Zim students that are adamant that Rob Mugabe is a hero and that black people are a superior race.

Then about me being a biblical literalist... of course there are clearly some parts of the bible that are poetry and imagery. For instance I don't believe that only 144 000 people will go to heaven as it states in revelations.... revelations was a dream... which means it is metaphoric in nature and should be treated as such. The way Daniel and Joseph treat dreams gives us a could indication that to treat dreams/visions as literal is complete stupidity.

There are many other people though that have analyzed the writing styles of the Hebrew text. Genesis is written as an historical account and not as a story.

I am glad that our difference in interpretation is of degree and not of type. And let me state for the record that my blood boils when I hear someone says
"Now listen here sonny, the bible is the infallible word of God because it says in 2 Timothy chapter 3 verse 16 that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"... so there you have it sonny... proof that the bible is the inspired word of God"

I mean... what kind of logic is that. It would be the same as me saying to people that because I say I am the reincarnation of Elvis that it must be true that I am Elvis.

That piece of scripture doesn't prove anything... it merely states the purpose of scripture. I can't believe how many times somebody has tried to quote that to me as proof that the bible is infallible.

In the end my attack is not on the original theory of evolution but on the consequences of the ideas of evolution. I hope you are aware that the full title of Darwin's book was "The Origin of the Species. The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" Sounds a little racist to me.

I've got to be honest at this point... while I am definitely on the creationist side of the fence... I am not an active participant in the evolution/creation debate.

I have only looked far enough into both to see that.
a) There is no conclusive evidence that proves speciation within evolution.
b) There is a lot of science that disputes old earth theory.
c) The earth is at least 6-10 thousand years old... and its definitely less than a billion years old.
d) Evolution is been taught and accepted as fact while nurmerous scientists are still hoping to prove it... never mind understand it.
e)Most creationist are predominantly (including myself to a large degree) emotionally driven in their defense.
f)The most popular (like Dawkin's and Hawkins... hey they rhyme haha) atheistic/evolutionary evangelist/propagandists discriminate against anyone who disagrees with them and their books have major flaws which they average Joe on the street just accepts as proof but which even an average non-science university graduate (such as myself) can see as having problems.

In the end I'm not telling everybody believe in creation or else you will burn in hell, my hope is that people don't just accept evolution and actually look into it. I realize that there will be a lot that still decide to believe in evolution... but they won't lay there lives on it at least.

My concern is always about the Kingdom of God... and living my life to the capacity that Jesus made possible. I am interested in people knowing God more. I love being able to decide things for myself with the mind that God gave me.

Peter, you are clearly someone that also enjoys thinking for himself.

My primary objective is that people will think for themselves.
My secondary objective is that the people that prefer not to think for themselves would be blown away by my amazing emotive language and the proof (even though I have given none) I state on what nonsense evolution is and decide that they have really thought through it hard (without actually looking at any evidence) and follow me... viva la rEvolution. hehehe....

Ok... actually I feel sorry for the people that do fall into that second category because they are as the bible describes "tossed in the wind from one side to another" and are then worse (in my mind) than the atheistic/evolutionary evangelists because they don't "test" everything as scripture says.

If you are interested in having a discussion with someone that is more well read... and more passionate about looking in deeper than I am... I could try arrange some email correspondence with a friend of mine who is "called" to this kind of thing.

Oh yes... in one of my posts I referred to how apparent evidence is open to interpretation.
You gave an example of how different species have similar bones, joints etc that can be shown to be anatomically equivalent.

Well... If I break open my car radio and break open my brothers TV, I am likely to find components in both that are "anatomically" equivalent (and receive a beating from my brother). Now it would be ridiculous to assume they evolved from each other. It was probably cheaper/easier/practical/useful to use certain components that had already been designed and were known to achieve to desired purpose and were therefore simply put in both appliances in the manufacturing process.

Likewise a creationists argument would be why reinvent the ribcage... or the wrist bone.. the one the monkey uses would be just fine with some minor modification for the human.

Heck... did you know that there are even some scientific theories for why everyone in the bible pre-flood could live so long... and why indeed we all started with only 1 Adam and 1 eve and didn't result in a bunch of stupid people (although sometimes I think I'm surrounded by them) from the inbreeding.

Some of the theories are crazy... but no more crazy than the idea of a round earth/radio waves/x-rays/airplanes or evolution when they were first conceived of and propagated.
If someone is willing to believe evolution

Thanks for the conversation... I would prefer if we took this on further in person though... I do not wish for my blog to become a forum (besides like I said... I really dislike long posts)... thanks for taking the time to look into things... I hope that your convictions and your search for truth have both been strengthened.... or alternatively that they have been shaken.

2. Are you a biblical literalist? 3. If so, how do you reconcile Genesis' internal inconsistencies? (Gen 1 and Gen 2)

Yes I am actually. (oh boy... this is a big can of worms... I have now just opened up myself to millions of potential questions).

The third question is quite a common question actually.

I believe the two chapters are written for a different context and purpose and this different context and purpose is why they (whoever they were) decided to make the beginning of chapter 2 at this point.

Genesis 1 is an overview of the creation process whereas Genesis 2 focuses in specifically on man and goes into more detail. Genesis 1 is about the process of creation and Genesis 2 is about man.

They are in fact complementary and not contradictory. Genesis 2 is not dealing with the creation of the universe but with the creation of man and therefore other parts of creation mentioned in chapter 2 are not required to be in any kind of chronological order.

You can do some searches on the net for more in depth explanations.

1. What is it about evolution that is so threatening to your view of God?

A very good question.

I will take a philosophical look at this. I will do this because essentially evolution is really a philosophy/religion and not a science. (btw this could be funny because I have not formally studied philosophy).

Evolution presupposes a couple of things that simple don't fit within a COHERENT worldview. For the purposes of anyone else reading this I'm quickly going to define a worldview. A worldview is the set of premises that we hold to in our belief system. These premises (or ideas) determine how we react to any given situation in life. Whether this is how we react to a parent asking us to do a chore, how we view relationships, how we treat the opposite sex, how we view government, economics, community, family and most importantly (in my view anyway)... What is my purpose?

Everyone has a worldview... whether by their own design or whether by default (through society, the goverment, upbringing or education).

I will now attempt to define an evoltionary worldview.

Evolution/Atheism presupposes that:

• We all evolved from a single celled orgamism.
• Mutations take millions of years to take place.
• All life evolved from one point.
• Survival of the fittest is what motivates every species to evolve so that its existence will continue.
• The earth has therefore existed for billions of years.
• All true knowledge is observable and measurable through imperic means.
• Humans are simply more evolved than other species.
• You are only as useful as your talents are (i.e. if you don't make my life better or earn me more money then you are less than useless)
  

Problems with this world view:

You can't observe evolution... this already means that 2 premises contradict each other.

Intrinsically I have no more value than another life form... i.e. plants and man have the same value. This means either
a) human life has no value (abortion/genocide/murder) and its only about survival of the fittest like in the animal kingdom. i.e. we are nothing more than more intelligent animals. This I believe is a strong influencer of why so many people are nowadays depressed (having no purpose) or live uncontrolled debaucherious lives (sex and drugs) because they are simply giving into there "animal instincts" which are "natural".
b) all life is sacred
which contradicts with the "survival of the fittest idea" but means then that we are committment endless crimes when eating meat or killing a mosquito.

The most practical one of the two is a).
Another problem (or justification for prejudice) is then that "white" people are more evolved than "black" people. Evolution is simply then a sub-conscious justification for peoples fear of something that is different. I'm not saying that all evolutionist are prejudice... I am saying that believing evolution predisposes you to racism instead of taking responsibility.

If we are taught these kind of things then it is no wonder that Hitler managed to come to power... or that socialism has killed more of its own people (i.e. excluding wars with non-socialist countries) than anything else all combined in the history of mankind... or the genocide of rawanda between the hutsi's and tutsi's. (hope the spelling was right) Or the senseless killing of little babies.

Evolutionist will quickly say though that genocide is silly and unethical (while supporting abortion????)... on what basis? Certainly not on a scientific/athiestic/evolutionary basis. The worldview is therefore incoherent and inconsistent at its foundations... as are the people that try to live it out.

The reason why most do things that don't match the outworkings of the presuppositions of their worldview is because there consciences can't live with it. The other small minority that do follow out their atheistic/evolutionary convictions either
a) commit suicide
b) become power mongers (survival of the fittest)
c) come up with strategies to exterminate lesser "species" of human.
d) become post modern and spend all day doing what "feels right" or "feels good"... cos hey... as long as it makes you happy... nevermind the other 8 billion people on the planet... you're more important.


These all "threaten" my view of God because my worldview pressuposes:

• We are all created and loved equally by God.
• We are to use our minds to their full potential and cultivate everything around us (dominion mandate from genensis).
• We CAN love and not FEAR each other.
• We are God's special treasure.
• We have a purpose that can be known and realised in God.
• We have value.
  

We are not controlled and doomed to be slaves to our "animal" instincts.


This creates a complete different view of life. For instance... if this is lived out properly then society is transformed.

EG. 80% of the roman empire were slaves, woman were non-poeple, and children under the age of 8 were also non-people and could still be "aborted" or simply used for convenience sex by there fathers at this age. Christianity radically changed all of this.

Science (because of the dominion mandate) has flourished in every place where Christianity (by this I'm refering to a real relationship with God and not abusive oppresive religion)

By mixing the 2 together you end up trying to live something that constantly contradicts itself and limits your walk with God.

How can I be completely 100% free of all prejudice if somewhere in the back of my mind I believe that I am superior in the evolutionary chain to other races.

In my orginal post I stated that by holing onto both views you will "lack conviction". By that statement I meant the following:

If I cannot believe the begining part of the bible then why should I believe anything else.

Does the holy spirit really exist?
Are there really gifts of the holy spirit?
Are there really demons?
Is there really spiritual warfare?
Do my prayers really influence the fabric of society?
Does God really have time for me?
Does God really love me?
Do I really have value if I'm just some random permutation of genetic material?
Will people really get healed if I pray for them?
Can God really give me super natural insight into somebodies life?
Can I really "trust in God at all time"... maybe God doesn't actually care what I do?
Are there actually any benefits to been pure and faitful... isn't that just killing my fun?
Will God really forgive me?
Will God really forgive me... again... and again.
Am I still valuable (even though I was a womaniser... possibly resposible for the death of a child).
Does God really want to use me (I'm just a systems developer/mechanic/housewife/optometrist)
Does God really have advice on how to have a happy marriage/family/career.
Does God actually have amazing principles that actually really do work 10 times better than anything in the world?
Am I really called to serve my wife and not control her and expect her to run around for me?
Am I really to love my neighbor?
Am I really to forgive my enemies?

Or if you are faced with a situation where someone starts manifesting demonic activity are you
a) Going to run in fear because you don't believe in Christs authority
b) Laugh at the demon and send it packing.


So is it possible to believe both? Yes it is.... whether you believe both or belieive in just 1 it will have consequences on how you react to situations.

For instance I never go around claiming that I have human rights. I don't. I'm a christian... I only have responsibilities... my life was laid down when I gave it to God. Therefore it is impossible for me to feel "violated" in the ways that other people do. That is why I have no victim mentality from been hijacked. It is why I know that God is my provider... not my hands... and certainly not my employer. It is why life just doesn't stress me (most of the time anyway).


So to conclude my answer to the question... when it comes down to it... evolution does not threaten my view of God... it threatens the view of God of the people that believe in it. At any given point in time I always know and feel Gods love and grace... even while a gun is been pointed in my head.

I don't believe in evolution because a) there's no evidence and b) I like the fact that demons are scared of me, I like that I have prayed for people and seen them healed, I like knowing that I am special, unique and "wonderfully and fearfully created" as opposed to "randomly and accidentally permutated"


Hope this was helpful... or that it at least introduced some new ideas.

re: Comments on evolution

So I was asked in this COMMENT a couple of questions... I will attempt to answer them here on my main page. I will post each answer up 1 at a time... (because I have a strong dislike for long posts).

BTW thanks for the reply Peter... I hope my answers at least partly satisfy you (I say partly because I would hate for someone to just believe me at face value.)

And yes... the post was "an impassioned attack on evolution"... perhaps not with the most diplomatic choice of words or eloquence... but it is motivated from a combination of amazement, anger and confusion at how evolution is claimed to be scientific fact when there is so much real science that contradicts it, conflicts with it and when there is in many scientists opinions no evidence for it. That and the fact that people that believe in creationism are given "pitiful" smiles in the academic world. There are discriminatory assumptions made that creationism is purely emotional and evolution is factual when in fact the opposite seems to be the case the more I look into it.

1. What is it about evolution that is so threatening to your view of God?
2. Are you a biblical literalist?
3. If so, how do you reconcile Genesis' internal inconsistencies? (Gen 1 and Gen 2)

BTW... Please keep in mind that my responses are to the blogging community and not aimed at you... I think it is a question that a lot of people want to ask but lack the "conviction" to do so.

I should also state that these answers are very quick answers and might leave many more questions. My hope is that others reading this are encouraged to look in deeper themselves where necessary... it is impossible for me to answer completely (there is a reason why entire books are written for and against evolution). I can at best wet peoples appetites or make enemies.

:)

Shampoo

So on Saturday I was in pick 'n pay with Themba doing some shopping when we passed the toiletries aisle. For some reason I stared at a bottle of "head & shoulders" and instantly thought to myself, "self... I wonder why they call it head and shoulders... in this country we only wash the hair on our heads with shampoo".

I then quickly concluded that it must have been invented by a Greek.
Head and Shoulders for men.
Head and Lips for women. :)

Apologies to my Greek friends... But you are all hairy (As someone who himself has hair growing on his back I feel your pain.... heck I even pluck my eyebrows)

I was later informed that "head and shoulders" is for people with dandruff.... i.e. you don't only keep your hair clean but prevent skin from flaking onto your shoulders. Oh well... I still think it was funny.

Problems with Carbon Dating

This link --> Carbon Dating is taken from the answers in genesis website.

Something I didn't mention in my previous post is this:

While I believe on creation vs evolution let me state the following:

Not all "creation" science is science (just like evolution science)
Not all "creation" agruments are well thought out (just like all evolutionary arguments)
Not all "creation" documentaries target a systematically thinking human being. In fact a lot are very sensationalist and concentrate mostly on making "fun" of the "stupididty" of evolutionist instead of actually presenting the actual evidence against evolution. (just like evolutionary evangelist)

So if you are researching something... don't rely on one source (thats how we all got duped into believing evolution in the first place).

Why do so many people hold onto evolution?
they have to. Ideas have consequences. Holding onto evolution as a presuposition of your world view allows you to justify many of your own actions. For example... racism. It forces you into being influenced by post modern philosophy. After all life is about survival of the fittest.

Not believing in evolution means you gotta ask and think about some really hard issues like:

What if there is a God?
What does he want from me?
You mean that hijacker is of equal value to me?
You mean that I am actually a despicable person because of how I treat poor people or disadvantaged people?
What if hell does exist?
What if there is an aboslute standard?

What about the dualistic camp? those who try believe in both?
You surely can't find your faith completely fullfilling. (perhaps you think you do... perhaps I just made a really bad assumption now)
But also... surely you have not looked into it properly.

Evolution is not a science... it is a religion... a worldview... a mask.

My next statement is purely from experiece.... Christians who are dualistic in their beliefs do not in practice have the faith to
a) See people healed (I have prayed for and seen people healed)
b) Cast out demons (I have done this many times)
c) Trust God for complete provision

They generally make excuses for not living the Christian life and constently keep their lives in their own hands because they don't trust God and therefore do not care what his opinion is on life, marriage, economics, media, genetics, sex, relationships and money.

Here's an excert from the above link (I know... this part of the article has nothing to do with carbon dating... but perhaps it will haunt you to see how deep the rabbit hole goes)

Of the methods that have been used to estimate the age of the earth, 90 percent point to an age far less than the billions of years asserted by evolutionists. A few of them follow.

· Evidence for a rapid formation of geological strata, as in the biblical flood. Some of the evidence are: lack of erosion between rock layers supposedly separated in age by many millions of years; lack of disturbance of rock strata by biological activity (worms, roots, etc.); lack of soil layers; polystrate fossils (which traverse several rock layers vertically—these could not have stood vertically for eons of time while they slowly got buried); thick layers of ‘rock’ bent without fracturing, indicating that the rock was all soft when bent; and more. For more, see books by geologists Morris²⁶ and Austin.²⁷

· Red blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in some (unfossilized!) dinosaur bone. But these could not last more than a few thousand years—certainly not the 65 Ma since the last dinosaurs lived, according to evolutionists.²⁸

· The earth’s magnetic field has been decaying so fast that it looks like it is less than 10,000 years old. Rapid reversals during the Flood year and fluctuations shortly after would have caused the field energy to drop even faster.^{29, 30}

· Radioactive decay releases helium into the atmosphere, but not much is escaping. The total amount in the atmosphere is 1/2000th of that expected if the universe is really billions of years old. This helium originally escaped from rocks. This happens quite fast, yet so much helium is still in some rocks that it has not had time to escape—certainly not billions of years.³⁰

· A supernova is an explosion of a massive star—the explosion is so bright that it briefly outshines the rest of the galaxy. The supernova remnants (SNRs) should keep expanding for hundreds of thousands of years, according to physical equations. Yet there are no very old, widely expanded (Stage 3) SNRs, and few moderately old (Stage 1) ones in our galaxy, the Milky Way, or in its satellite galaxies, the Magellanic Clouds. This is just what we would expect for ‘young’ galaxies that have not existed long enough for wide expansion.³¹

· The moon is slowly receding from the earth at about 4 centimeters (1.5 inches) per year, and this rate would have been greater in the past. But even if the moon had started receding from being in contact with the earth, it would have taken only 1.37 billion years to reach its present distance from the earth. This gives a maximum age of the moon, not the actual age. This is far too young for evolutionists who claim the moon is 4.6 billion years old. It is also much younger than the radiometric ‘dates’ assigned to moon rocks.³²

· Salt is entering the sea much faster than it is escaping. The sea is not nearly salty enough for this to have been happening for billions of years. Even granting generous assumptions to evolutionists, the sea could not be more than 62 Ma years old—far younger than the billions of years believed by the evolutionists. Again, this indicates a maximum age, not the actual age.³³

More laughter and inconsistency from Evolutionists

Shame... sometimes I wonder how you can call yourself a scientist and believe in evolution and sleep at night.

Mexican foot prints is yet another interesting article for thought.

If you don't know then now is a good time to let you know. I don't believe in evolution. WHAT!!!

How did this start.

Well growing up I was initially skeptic when taught that I was basically a super intelligent monkey. But hey... Apparently there was "scientific" proof.

I use to sometimes sit up at night thinking how cool it must be to be a scientist that is so clever that they know how to work out how animals etc look like based on there bones etc. And discovering all the fossils etc must be so great.

Well unlike most of my peers I dug a little deeper while I was at University. You see... actually the whole story they tell us about the missing link. It not true. They have 1 or 2 supposed links... its actually the missing chain.

Then there is all the cosmological, geological, biological, linguistic evidence that shoots down the evolution theories and contradicts it.

Hell I've found that if you spend enough time speaking to someone in any remotely scientifically based discipline they sooner or later (whether by choice or accident) share with you a theory (for which there is actually evidence) that makes evolution impossible.

Then of course lets not forget that a incredibly large portion (somewhere around 50%) of scientists are rejecting their religion of evolution and moving over to the creation camp. I don't just mean scientist by "Ooh... I have a masters in xyz"... I mean actual scientist involved on everything from genetics and cloning, medicine, biology, physics etc. Even mathematicians and statisticians.

"What about carbon dating?" I hear you ask. mmm... perhaps you should do some searches on dating methods. Its a good laugh.

Man... I gotta give these hard core evolutionists one thing though.... boy do they have faith.

Trusting God for a future wife takes faith... I know... trusting God to meet more than your needs and be a blessing while you have no source of income takes faith... I know... but believing in a theory that has to date no conclusive evidence or proof.

When I became a Christian I was still under the impression that it was a science vs religion. Trust me... scratch under the service. Read some books written by creationists. Do some research on the "science" of the big bang.

Don't worry if your world and paradigms are shaken and you feel scared us you realize you've been lied to... there does come a point where the horror turns into laughter.

Now don't think I'm some close minded person that doesn't know what science is. Believe it or not I have had discussions with close minded Christians on why I believe cloning is not necessarily ungodly or unbiblical.

Just for kicks... I'll post a little something about carbon dating with my next post.

If somebody tells you they got evidence. Do the following:

Type in the name of the theory along with the word creation in google and do a search.

Often the theory is purely just that... theory... no evidence... or when there is evidence it can be strongly intepreted to support both evolution or creation and is therefore inconclusive.