1. What is it about evolution that is so threatening to your view of God?
A very good question.
I will take a philosophical look at this. I will do this because essentially evolution is really a philosophy/religion and not a science. (btw this could be funny because I have not formally studied philosophy).
Evolution presupposes a couple of things that simple don't fit within a COHERENT worldview. For the purposes of anyone else reading this I'm quickly going to define a worldview. A worldview is the set of premises that we hold to in our belief system. These premises (or ideas) determine how we react to any given situation in life. Whether this is how we react to a parent asking us to do a chore, how we view relationships, how we treat the opposite sex, how we view government, economics, community, family and most importantly (in my view anyway)... What is my purpose?
Everyone has a worldview... whether by their own design or whether by default (through society, the goverment, upbringing or education).
I will now attempt to define an evoltionary worldview.
Evolution/Atheism presupposes that:
Problems with this world view:
You can't observe evolution... this already means that 2 premises contradict each other.
Intrinsically I have no more value than another life form... i.e. plants and man have the same value. This means either
a) human life has no value (abortion/genocide/murder) and its only about survival of the fittest like in the animal kingdom. i.e. we are nothing more than more intelligent animals. This I believe is a strong influencer of why so many people are nowadays depressed (having no purpose) or live uncontrolled debaucherious lives (sex and drugs) because they are simply giving into there "animal instincts" which are "natural".
b) all life is sacred
which contradicts with the "survival of the fittest idea" but means then that we are committment endless crimes when eating meat or killing a mosquito.
The most practical one of the two is a).
Another problem (or justification for prejudice) is then that "white" people are more evolved than "black" people. Evolution is simply then a sub-conscious justification for peoples fear of something that is different. I'm not saying that all evolutionist are prejudice... I am saying that believing evolution predisposes you to racism instead of taking responsibility.
If we are taught these kind of things then it is no wonder that Hitler managed to come to power... or that socialism has killed more of its own people (i.e. excluding wars with non-socialist countries) than anything else all combined in the history of mankind... or the genocide of rawanda between the hutsi's and tutsi's. (hope the spelling was right) Or the senseless killing of little babies.
Evolutionist will quickly say though that genocide is silly and unethical (while supporting abortion????)... on what basis? Certainly not on a scientific/athiestic/evolutionary basis. The worldview is therefore incoherent and inconsistent at its foundations... as are the people that try to live it out.
The reason why most do things that don't match the outworkings of the presuppositions of their worldview is because there consciences can't live with it. The other small minority that do follow out their atheistic/evolutionary convictions either
a) commit suicide
b) become power mongers (survival of the fittest)
c) come up with strategies to exterminate lesser "species" of human.
d) become post modern and spend all day doing what "feels right" or "feels good"... cos hey... as long as it makes you happy... nevermind the other 8 billion people on the planet... you're more important.
These all "threaten" my view of God because my worldview pressuposes:
This creates a complete different view of life. For instance... if this is lived out properly then society is transformed.
EG. 80% of the roman empire were slaves, woman were non-poeple, and children under the age of 8 were also non-people and could still be "aborted" or simply used for convenience sex by there fathers at this age. Christianity radically changed all of this.
Science (because of the dominion mandate) has flourished in every place where Christianity (by this I'm refering to a real relationship with God and not abusive oppresive religion)
By mixing the 2 together you end up trying to live something that constantly contradicts itself and limits your walk with God.
How can I be completely 100% free of all prejudice if somewhere in the back of my mind I believe that I am superior in the evolutionary chain to other races.
In my orginal post I stated that by holing onto both views you will "lack conviction". By that statement I meant the following:
If I cannot believe the begining part of the bible then why should I believe anything else.
Does the holy spirit really exist?
Are there really gifts of the holy spirit?
Are there really demons?
Is there really spiritual warfare?
Do my prayers really influence the fabric of society?
Does God really have time for me?
Does God really love me?
Do I really have value if I'm just some random permutation of genetic material?
Will people really get healed if I pray for them?
Can God really give me super natural insight into somebodies life?
Can I really "trust in God at all time"... maybe God doesn't actually care what I do?
Are there actually any benefits to been pure and faitful... isn't that just killing my fun?
Will God really forgive me?
Will God really forgive me... again... and again.
Am I still valuable (even though I was a womaniser... possibly resposible for the death of a child).
Does God really want to use me (I'm just a systems developer/mechanic/housewife/optometrist)
Does God really have advice on how to have a happy marriage/family/career.
Does God actually have amazing principles that actually really do work 10 times better than anything in the world?
Am I really called to serve my wife and not control her and expect her to run around for me?
Am I really to love my neighbor?
Am I really to forgive my enemies?
Or if you are faced with a situation where someone starts manifesting demonic activity are you
a) Going to run in fear because you don't believe in Christs authority
b) Laugh at the demon and send it packing.
So is it possible to believe both? Yes it is.... whether you believe both or belieive in just 1 it will have consequences on how you react to situations.
For instance I never go around claiming that I have human rights. I don't. I'm a christian... I only have responsibilities... my life was laid down when I gave it to God. Therefore it is impossible for me to feel "violated" in the ways that other people do. That is why I have no victim mentality from been hijacked. It is why I know that God is my provider... not my hands... and certainly not my employer. It is why life just doesn't stress me (most of the time anyway).
So to conclude my answer to the question... when it comes down to it... evolution does not threaten my view of God... it threatens the view of God of the people that believe in it. At any given point in time I always know and feel Gods love and grace... even while a gun is been pointed in my head.
I don't believe in evolution because a) there's no evidence and b) I like the fact that demons are scared of me, I like that I have prayed for people and seen them healed, I like knowing that I am special, unique and "wonderfully and fearfully created" as opposed to "randomly and accidentally permutated"
Hope this was helpful... or that it at least introduced some new ideas.
I will take a philosophical look at this. I will do this because essentially evolution is really a philosophy/religion and not a science. (btw this could be funny because I have not formally studied philosophy).
Evolution presupposes a couple of things that simple don't fit within a COHERENT worldview. For the purposes of anyone else reading this I'm quickly going to define a worldview. A worldview is the set of premises that we hold to in our belief system. These premises (or ideas) determine how we react to any given situation in life. Whether this is how we react to a parent asking us to do a chore, how we view relationships, how we treat the opposite sex, how we view government, economics, community, family and most importantly (in my view anyway)... What is my purpose?
Everyone has a worldview... whether by their own design or whether by default (through society, the goverment, upbringing or education).
I will now attempt to define an evoltionary worldview.
Evolution/Atheism presupposes that:
- We all evolved from a single celled orgamism.
- Mutations take millions of years to take place.
- All life evolved from one point.
- Survival of the fittest is what motivates every species to evolve so that its existence will continue.
- The earth has therefore existed for billions of years.
- All true knowledge is observable and measurable through imperic means.
- Humans are simply more evolved than other species.
- You are only as useful as your talents are (i.e. if you don't make my life better or earn me more money then you are less than useless)
Problems with this world view:
You can't observe evolution... this already means that 2 premises contradict each other.
Intrinsically I have no more value than another life form... i.e. plants and man have the same value. This means either
a) human life has no value (abortion/genocide/murder) and its only about survival of the fittest like in the animal kingdom. i.e. we are nothing more than more intelligent animals. This I believe is a strong influencer of why so many people are nowadays depressed (having no purpose) or live uncontrolled debaucherious lives (sex and drugs) because they are simply giving into there "animal instincts" which are "natural".
b) all life is sacred
which contradicts with the "survival of the fittest idea" but means then that we are committment endless crimes when eating meat or killing a mosquito.
The most practical one of the two is a).
Another problem (or justification for prejudice) is then that "white" people are more evolved than "black" people. Evolution is simply then a sub-conscious justification for peoples fear of something that is different. I'm not saying that all evolutionist are prejudice... I am saying that believing evolution predisposes you to racism instead of taking responsibility.
If we are taught these kind of things then it is no wonder that Hitler managed to come to power... or that socialism has killed more of its own people (i.e. excluding wars with non-socialist countries) than anything else all combined in the history of mankind... or the genocide of rawanda between the hutsi's and tutsi's. (hope the spelling was right) Or the senseless killing of little babies.
Evolutionist will quickly say though that genocide is silly and unethical (while supporting abortion????)... on what basis? Certainly not on a scientific/athiestic/evolutionary basis. The worldview is therefore incoherent and inconsistent at its foundations... as are the people that try to live it out.
The reason why most do things that don't match the outworkings of the presuppositions of their worldview is because there consciences can't live with it. The other small minority that do follow out their atheistic/evolutionary convictions either
a) commit suicide
b) become power mongers (survival of the fittest)
c) come up with strategies to exterminate lesser "species" of human.
d) become post modern and spend all day doing what "feels right" or "feels good"... cos hey... as long as it makes you happy... nevermind the other 8 billion people on the planet... you're more important.
These all "threaten" my view of God because my worldview pressuposes:
- We are all created and loved equally by God.
- We are to use our minds to their full potential and cultivate everything around us (dominion mandate from genensis).
- We CAN love and not FEAR each other.
- We are God's special treasure.
- We have a purpose that can be known and realised in God.
- We have value.
This creates a complete different view of life. For instance... if this is lived out properly then society is transformed.
EG. 80% of the roman empire were slaves, woman were non-poeple, and children under the age of 8 were also non-people and could still be "aborted" or simply used for convenience sex by there fathers at this age. Christianity radically changed all of this.
Science (because of the dominion mandate) has flourished in every place where Christianity (by this I'm refering to a real relationship with God and not abusive oppresive religion)
By mixing the 2 together you end up trying to live something that constantly contradicts itself and limits your walk with God.
How can I be completely 100% free of all prejudice if somewhere in the back of my mind I believe that I am superior in the evolutionary chain to other races.
In my orginal post I stated that by holing onto both views you will "lack conviction". By that statement I meant the following:
If I cannot believe the begining part of the bible then why should I believe anything else.
Does the holy spirit really exist?
Are there really gifts of the holy spirit?
Are there really demons?
Is there really spiritual warfare?
Do my prayers really influence the fabric of society?
Does God really have time for me?
Does God really love me?
Do I really have value if I'm just some random permutation of genetic material?
Will people really get healed if I pray for them?
Can God really give me super natural insight into somebodies life?
Can I really "trust in God at all time"... maybe God doesn't actually care what I do?
Are there actually any benefits to been pure and faitful... isn't that just killing my fun?
Will God really forgive me?
Will God really forgive me... again... and again.
Am I still valuable (even though I was a womaniser... possibly resposible for the death of a child).
Does God really want to use me (I'm just a systems developer/mechanic/housewife/optometrist)
Does God really have advice on how to have a happy marriage/family/career.
Does God actually have amazing principles that actually really do work 10 times better than anything in the world?
Am I really called to serve my wife and not control her and expect her to run around for me?
Am I really to love my neighbor?
Am I really to forgive my enemies?
Or if you are faced with a situation where someone starts manifesting demonic activity are you
a) Going to run in fear because you don't believe in Christs authority
b) Laugh at the demon and send it packing.
So is it possible to believe both? Yes it is.... whether you believe both or belieive in just 1 it will have consequences on how you react to situations.
For instance I never go around claiming that I have human rights. I don't. I'm a christian... I only have responsibilities... my life was laid down when I gave it to God. Therefore it is impossible for me to feel "violated" in the ways that other people do. That is why I have no victim mentality from been hijacked. It is why I know that God is my provider... not my hands... and certainly not my employer. It is why life just doesn't stress me (most of the time anyway).
So to conclude my answer to the question... when it comes down to it... evolution does not threaten my view of God... it threatens the view of God of the people that believe in it. At any given point in time I always know and feel Gods love and grace... even while a gun is been pointed in my head.
I don't believe in evolution because a) there's no evidence and b) I like the fact that demons are scared of me, I like that I have prayed for people and seen them healed, I like knowing that I am special, unique and "wonderfully and fearfully created" as opposed to "randomly and accidentally permutated"
Hope this was helpful... or that it at least introduced some new ideas.
posted by Gareth at 1:34 PM
1 Comments:
Let me start by saying that evolution is a scientific theory. I can seperate that scientific theory from the atheist propaganda that surrounds certain arguments that are advanced in support of evolution. Richard Dawkins, in particular, is an evolutionary theorist who uses his writing to advance an anti-religious atheistic worldview. I don't have any time for his work, apart from his atheistic views I find his writing to be sloppy: he often refers to what a gene "wants to do" implying that genes have free will- which has no scientific basis.
So, I don't have any time at all for a worldview that conflates evolution with atheism.
Looking at your list in constructing a worldview, there are somethings I subscribe to and some I don't.
The ones I don't:
Mutations take millions of years to take place. Actually, they are observable at human-comprehensible timescales, some even happen spontaneously. This is known in horticulture as a "sport" and is fairly common.
Species are not 'motivated'to do anything under evolutionary theory-Evolution states very simple that organisms mutate, and nature selects the ones whose mutations are favourable to them.There is no scientific basis for claiming that this can have any conscious direction.
"You are only as useful as your talents are"- this is not a feature of evolutionary theory. This is a product of materialistic worldviews,but evolution certainly doesn't imply this.
I think it's also important to speak about the things evolution says NOTHING about. Evolution says NOTHING about morality, about the worth of humans, about free will, about our souls. As far as racial superiority, this is also not a consequence of evolutionary thought. This WAS an argument that was applied in the 18th century ('Europeans are on top of the pile, evolution says 'survival of the fittest' therefore, if Europeans are on top of the pile, we must be fittest')-a time when the Bible was also used to argue for European superiority.
I don't try to "live out" an evolutionary worldview anymore than you try to make moral decisions based on programming languages. Evolution is a scientific hypothesis for understanding how species develop. Nothing more.
We are all created and loved equally by God. We are to use our minds to their full potential and cultivate everything around us (dominion mandate from genensis). We CAN love and not FEAR each other. We are God's special treasure. We have a purpose that can be known and realised in God. We have value.
We are not controlled and doomed to be slaves to our "animal" instincts.
Couldn't agree with you more. Nothing in the scientific theory of evolution contradicts this.
I'm open to being convinced a bit more, but at the moment I have to disagree with you. Maybe I am missing out on a lot of closeness to God (correction, I know I am) but I don't think that's because of the scientific theories I ascribe relevance to.
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